Worst neighborhood in San Francisco

You know what's worse though? Fisherman's Wharf. You might get killed in the Tenderloin, but Fisherman's Wharf will sap your will to live. A drug addicted mugger is nothing compared to hordes of zombie tourists buying blank postcards of "San Franisco at Night!" Now that is scary!

Ok, the TL is dangerous, and Hunter's Point has projects in it and a lot of low income housing. But what do we mean by worst? SOMA is kind of weird and industrial and dangerous, but for all that is has a certain charm and some unique amazing spots.

The Marina is by far the most annoying neighborhood in the city - no one I know will even go there because its so full of entitled white people. And what kind of places are there to visit in the Marina? Noah's Bagels? Crate & Barrel? No thanks. North Beach is almost as bad because of the aforementioned entitled douchebags who come down from the Marina on Friday night and get in fights and get shot occasionally, but it has redeeming qualities during the day.

The Upper Haight also sucks.

I hear you Soulpony. I was by no means saying that SoMa is the worst neighborhood. All I was saying is that, as a woman, I sometimes feel unsafe in certain areas after a certain hour. When the streets empty out, generally I feel unsafe and I feel unsafe when I only see homeless people who are ranting. (I don't blame them for it--my mom has told me about what Reagan did to the mental health system in this state--I get how institutions have failed us.)

SoMa, for example, has some of my favorite places as well (the museums etc.). And I fully get that with gentification more and more areas of the city have become unaffordable. Heck, I can't afford to live there. I'm generally an East Bay gal--Berkeley's where I feel most at home, and I actually find places that are overly "white"--that lack diversity-- just as uncomfortable as ones that feel impoverished.

Excellence through diversity! It wasn't just a motto, I bought into it at Cal.

@Soulpony, where did you go? I like the balance you bring to the group...

Gotta agree with @Flowergirl that being female certainly adds a degree of uncertainty when walking around some neighborhoods, particularly at night. I don't want to get on an entitled gender platform, but I will say that I'll take dirty, gentrified, rude or even congested over genuinely unsafe.

I grew up in SF, but have lived in Chicago for 25 years, so saying what is the "worst" neighborhood in SF is relative.
Chicago is scarier. The worst neighborhood, not in terms of crime, but in the lack of amenities, cultural, social, bars, restaurants, etc. is Visatation Valley. The area is so forgotten that it's about the only part of SF that Google hasn't street mapped. Stuck between the northern border of Daly City and to the east by Hunter's Point and 101, it's virtually a forgotten piece of land.
I've never had a problem with the Tenderloin. OK, it's gamey. Just leave the people you see there alone and they won't bother you. Just because some dude is talking to himself doesn't mean you have to talk back. In fact, best not too. Some of the Tenderloin is filled with people who are a part of what is called "Greyhound therapy."
Other towns have put their mentally ill and malcontents on a bus and shipped them off where they won't be an eyesore and cause trouble. Having said that, some of the more interesting nights I've spent in SF have been in some of the plethora of bars in the Loin- the Brown Jug, Ha Ra's, the High Tide, etc.

I currently live in the tenderloin, on ellis between larkin and polk, and i feel totally safe in my neighborhood. now that being said, i always take larkin from the civic center bart-never ever take hyde, and most of the time when i am walking at night, i am walking with my dog (who is a REAL dog, not a pocket dog) so that always helps me feel safer. I have always felt safer in my hood than in the mission. mostly the tenderloin is just drug addicts and pros. which i will pick any day over gangs and violent crime. most of the druggies and pros know me and my dog from my walks, and most of them just ignore me, but plenty of them also say hey or at least nod and smile. It should also be pointed out that i am a 26 year old white girl, so maybe i shouldnt feel safe, but i totally do. the thug guys who hang out at the corner store by my house have always been really friendly as well, and maybe i am just being naive, but i really do think if i was walking and someone was following me or trying to give me trouble, i could head in that direction and the corner store guys would sort it out for me (they also love my dog)

anyhow, those are just my thoughts.... oh, and living a few blocks from polk streets main bars definitely make my neighborhood more attractive to me (i love that the tourists dont go there because they have been warned, and as a result the bars dont hike up the prices as much)

Its probably a toss up between the Mission and the Tenderloin, but I do definitely think you're playing the odds Lizell. It only takes a couple of minutes to get robbed or worse and the thing with drug addicts is they don't always reason very clearly--in my experience anyway.

I would actually say that most of SF is fairly dangerous. I've had friends who've been mugged and had close calls in lots of spots. You should definitely stay aware. At some point your luck might run out. And once something bad happens its hard to feel that sense of security again.

If you want to give yourself a scare get some of the people at your local watering hole talking about close calls they've had, and you'll probably get enough stories to keep you up at night.

Then again, living out here in Carmel I've probably gotten a bit soft. If you were my daughter living out there, I would be worried, though.

@lizell--I totally second you on that. It is a little bit dangerous but life is an adventure. Especially while you're still young it is definitely worth it to have experiences and take a few chances. Otherwise what is the point?

I've had a couple of close calls in North Beach, but nothing too bad. And I wouldn't trade my time there for the world. Everybody needs at least a couple of years of living in the most beautiful city in the world.

The Tenderloin/Mid-Market is definitely seedy, but there's also a lot to do around there. As a young woman whose boyfriend lives right on Leavenworth and McAllister, right by the Civic Center BART and UN Plaza, I get my fair share of crackheads, meth heads, transients, homeless and/or mentally ill people on a daily basis, so I'm careful to only walk on certain streets, almost always with another person in a well-lit area. However, the neighborhood is really up and coming, especially since Twitter moved in on 7th and Market, and there has been a lot of gentrification as of late, especially South of Market (which is technically another neighborhood but directly adjacent to the TL). There are a lot of fun, relatively upscale places to go out in the TL, such as Monarch, Noble, Mr. Smith's, The Showdown, Bourbon & Branch, and Tradition, and there's a farmer's market three days out of the week in UN Plaza. Bayview/Hunter's Point can also be pretty sketchy (it's where most of the gang violence in SF goes down), but Third Street has quite a few shops and the area, like the TL, is rapidly gentrifying, especially with the abundance of new, upscale condominiums around Candlestick Point that are being built to maximize the beautiful views of the bay. There's a great jazz supper club called Old Skool Cafe that serves soul food, and Kelly's Mission Rock nightclub is right on the water and has dancing and food. The Bayview has some of the best weather in the city, so Kelly's Mission Rock is a great place to have a drink outdoors when it's warm out.

So much fear! "Things that scare white people"....damn..... These people all NEED to go to the Tenderloin and the Bayview to shed a little entitlement and get some flava.

Having lived in SF for many years myself, Here is a list of the seedier neighborhoods or districts in SF from MY perspective, which is all I can vouch for: First-Off, just wanted to comment on one post I read out of all these that I completely disagree with..Whoever said West Portal is Unsafe, might as well just live in a bubble for the rest of their lives, because the only even resemblance of unsavory characters I have witnessed there, are either most likely younger HS/various-aged students wrongfully-judged by their appearance, or if they are really down and out, then usually simply in transit, and never really posted there for too long, unless MUNI is delayed. It has a nice row of shops and is a pretty busy/major transit station as a lot the different lines stem-off in separate directions from there. Not to mention it is pretty much in the middle of SFSU & CCSF, as well as surrounded by some gorgeous houses.

Back to the Main Point, MY personal list of the seedier areas in SF: (All in MY Top 5)

Tenderloin -
The only reason I Ever mention this first regarding this subject is due to the amount of posts on this site, ONLY talking about the Tenderloin..Ok Yes, SF has it's fair share of homeless, it does not mean they're all necessarily shady people though, if you ever have the chance and the balls, find a homeless-person who doesn't look like they're imagining you as a giant crack-rock, and talk to them for a minute, just maybe they'll tell you their story, and you might actually learn something. I personally have never actually lived in the Tenderloin, but I have had many friends who have lived there that I visited frequently, not to mention, I have personally had Many jobs located in the heart of the Tenderloin, and pretty much spent 8-10hrs, 6 Days a week, literally standing on the sidewalk in the heart of the tenderloin, I've had a job literally 20 feet up the sidewalk from Glide Church, I have seen & talked to the same homeless people in that area for years, and they are not all that bad, if you can get over the body-odor of some of them. I can completely understand how a tourist might feel walking through that area at night, from working in the hospitality-business for as long as I had in that specific area, but as many people before me have eluded to in their posts..If you act or look like you are vulnerable, then your chances are much greater of getting messed with, in my opinion.

Filmore -
It really is as they say, the atmosphere can Completely Flip from one block to the next. Yes, I really do believe the Filmore is not the safest place, especially for tourism, and especially at night time on certain streets..but then you have this large apartment building erected, literally in the heart of the Filmore, populated by a majority of Caucasian, Art-School Students, but the buildings are well secured in that sense. It's just kind of funny how diverse, yet all blendered together this city can be at times. Having a (Non-AI) friend who managed to rent a room in that building, I got to have my fair share of experiences in the Filmore, definitely has some nice places to check-out, and some blocks to avoid.

Bayview/Hunter's Point -
Hey if the stats say 30% of all murders in SF take place here, according to a prior-post, then what can ya do. It is what it is, it's not a horrible place, as I have frequented Deep-East of Third Street many times myself, there's not much of a reason to really visit further south on 3rd, and especially further East, closer to the Bay, without any sort of purpose. I will say though, that Upper 3rd st. by Giants' Stadium has sprung up some really nice condominiums semi-recently, as mentioned in earlier posts. & if you can find them, there are some really good and diverse places to eat around there, as well as drink & nightlife.

Lakeview/Ingleside -
Now more popularly known as Ingleside, is a neighborhood that starts near SFSU and extends somewhat on the way toward Balboa Park Station without crossing over into Daly City. Yes, the nearby areas of SFSU are pretty nice, mainly populated by either students or quiet families, being SF with the ability to literally feel like a completely different city from one block to the next, if you end up in the wrong part of Ingleside, or as what they used to call Lakeview, it is probably best not to get out of your car or public transit without a purpose. I personally lived in the thick of Lakeview for a few years and made some good friends, but I know how people there perceive and protect their certain blocks over there, I myself lived at the end of a culdesac, but not quite what you'd imagine when you think culdesac in general-suburbia, this was more of a "You better be making a quick U-Turn, Or if you're creepin' slowly and you're not a narc (Undercover Cop), then there is definitely a high-possibility for $h!t to go down." My neighbor across the street from my house, there house (there G-ma's house) being literally 10-feet from mine, was walking down the main street "The Dolph" (Randolph) one night, and got shot at for no reason at all, him and his cousin didn't even know who the shooters were..my neighbor made it away clean, but his cousin wasn't so lucky, and that's just one small, recent incident. There wasn't a few times out of each month that I didn't hear gunshots from my room. Yes to the random tourist, this may sound scary, but to be honest, I loved my time there, as you get to know everybody around you, and the longer you're there, the deeper your bonds become, as "lizell" touched upon earlier, I knew for a fact that if I was ever in any need, my neighbors had my back, as I had theirs when they were in need of assistance. I had started to notice a little more toward the end of my stay there, that there were more State-Students braving the neighborhood's rep, or simply just didn't know any better, basing their residence-choice simply off the deal they found in rent in order for them to move-in to this area. As the location, all threats-aside, is extremely convenient for a student attending SF State who does not want to live in the "Villas" or directly on-campus. & if you don't believe me, look it up, even Andre Nicky talks about dumping bodies in Lake Merced, and if you've ever heard of Cougnut, used to live in Lakeview as well. On a side note, Mac Dre, I believe was more of a Bayview local.

In conclusion, I have moved more times during the period of my life I spent in SF, then I have in any other city during my entire life, and I have worked more various jobs in SF, then I have elsewhere as well. I love this city, and really miss it, but after taking an extended-stay in the only part of SF where individuality does not exist, especially in terms of apparel, I had to take a little break, mainly because of a Job Opportunity, which to this day is still the most fiscally-beneficial decision for myself, but I do still visit often, as I have a lot of friends/contacts who still reside there, and as much bs as I have experienced there, I wouldn't trade those experiences for the world..any of them, Positive AND the Negative.

So, if you ever decide to visit or live there, stay out of trouble, feel free to check-out wherever you like, just at least pretend like you know where you're going if you don't start to feel the safest..and please don't turn into a hipster.

Hope any of this helped..

I was born and raised in SF in the "notorious" neighborhood of Bayview-Hunter's Point. In terms of crime, violence, and gang activity, I'd say Bayview and Visitation Valley used to be pretty bad, but now due to all these rich tech scums moving into the city, a lot of the poor folks have had to leave due to the increased cost of living in SF. Yeah, the decrease in crime is great, but instead of pushing out the natives, the city should be helping them cure their problems instead of forcing them out. Soapy of the above posts annoy the f*cl out of me. So many spoiled brats have moved into this once culturally-thriving city. All these newcomers say they "love" the Frisco culture, yet they are the obese terrorizing and destroying the culture. I wish they would all just GTFO and it could be home sweet home again, but that ain't about to happen now. F*ck all you techie bastards.

Hmm, I have to say that I think San Francisco is a relatively safe city. I have friends who grew up in rough Chicago neighborhoods and rough Oakland neighborhoods, who say that even the roughest neighborhoods in SF don't really compare to the rough neighborhoods in Chicago or Oakland. It's good to remember that everything is relative. I don't know much about the Tenderloin having not spent much time there myself. The few times that I have been there have been completely uneventful and nothing bad happened. However, I can speak for Bayview since my husband and I own a house there. Bayview is actually pretty safe...I am white girl who takes public transport around Bayview everyday and has done so for years and has never had any problems. I also do a lot of walking around the Bayview and have never felt unsafe. This is not to say that you should walk around obliviously talking on your iPhone with your iPad sticking out of your purse, etc. Be smart, stay aware of your surroundings, and you should be fine in Bayview. It is an up and coming neighborhood that is slowly getting safer... and it will take time for Bayview's image to change in the eyes of the rest of the city. But seriously, crime happens everywhere in SF...touristy areas are actually where criminals go to target the unsuspecting sightseers, so remain alert wherever you chose to spend your time in our city. And don't let fear stop you from coming down to check out where the locals really live, in places like Bayview...you will get a totally authentic experience eating Auntie Aprils soul food, grabbing a coffee from Trouble Coffee, and checking out the old Bayview Opera House... which is, in my opinion, way better than walking around boring Fisherman's Wharf.

I lived in San Francisco for 30 years, here's my two cents: In daylight, there are no especially dangerous areas just driving around except for the freeways for obvious reasons. If you are a tourist, why would you ever be in the Tenderloin? or the Western Addition for that matter. Buying drugs? You're better off not doing that. The Richmond District and Sunset are middle class residential areas with decent restaurants but virtually no night life. If you must go to Fishermans Wharf, take a jacket and at least try to check out the view.
At night, don't go wandering around the City alone. There is definitely a lot of danger in any big city for the lone walker who doesn't know his or her way around. Take a taxi to and from your hotel.
Enjoy the restaurants, the great views, and dress warmly. Good luck!

@friscoboy: I can imagine that you are frustrated by the situation. But why are you blaming the techies while you should blame the city/government. If the poor people had a chance to get a proper education or job they would probably do the same. I am also a techie (from the netherlands, I don't live in the US) but does that mean I am a bastard. I am on vacation at the moment in SF and I noticed a lot of poverty on the streets and you are right about the fact that the city should help te poor people out. Nobody is a winner in this situation, because this image gives the city a bad reputation. I was here twenty years ago and I can't remember that it was this bad. But everywhere in the world young educated people like to move to a nice city that's dynamic. That doesn't count for me because I like to live in a quiet suburb because I am already 40 but when I was young I also like to live in the city.

San Francisco isn't really a "city" its a small town - only 7 miles (11.265 km) square. Diversity , religious and personal freedom are what San Francisco was built on. In the turn of the century YOGA, Buddhism, Spiritualism, then Beatniks, thousands of hippies and gays came and infused the culture with enormous creativity. In the late 70's the very popular Mayor & 1st gay Supervisor were assasinated and the whole town mourned together, and then right afterwards the AIDS plague wiped out an entire generation of world class brilliant designers, artists, painters,dancers, choreographers musicians, playwrights, and the city continued mourning. Then a 7.1 Earthquake struck us hard and the people sat on corners and comforters our neighbors together. The SF 49ers won the SUPERBOWL shortly afterwards and we all came together in great Joy & went crazy in the streets. Then the DOT COM arrived and partially gutted the infrastructure - Glass shops, Photography studios, Pleating & Quilting factories, sewing factories, etc. but it bombed very shortly afterwards and all those first "techies" we called "yuppies" left the town partially gutted. The town went back to its artsy fartsy 49, GIANTS lovin self . Worn out but in tact .

THIS IS DIFFERENT- partially because San Francisco - the town of Fruits & Nuts -represented the 20th Century very well. We are now in the 21st Century and once again in the Vanguard as the Tech Action Central Boom. Its such a different mentality going from the Industrial Revolution to the Technological age. All the other people who came here- the Chinese, Gold miners, Madams, Railroad Tycoons they all learned how to live together. These new "techies" do not integrate and to the local they seem like robots. They have NO RESPECT for who is already here and who have gone through all that history i just recounted for you. To them its Disneyland . They paint everything they own dark charcoal gray, they destroy beloved architectural elements of the gorgeous 20th Century buildings such as hand painted Spanish tiles, tile roofs, murals, gingerbread on Victorians with complete abandon & no respect. The GREED is out of control and the outside developers preying on their numbers have filled every old gas station lot and vacant lot with Condominiums charging $500 & up a month for rent of one bedroom apartments. Hundreds of local artists, dancers, musicians, painters and senior citizens are being thrown out of their buildings . THIS COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IF WERB CAEN WAS STILL WRITING HIS COLUMN in the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE ! MAYOR LEE WOULD HAVE BEEN RUN OUT OF TOWN! But part of the "Disruption" of TECH is no local newpapers, no local voice (i suppose blogs like this are all that is left.)

Privacy, Artistry, Magic, REAL physical Community (not online) and a sense of PLACE are what people are so upset about . I hope this helps you to understand. This is the Death of a Great American city not unlike what KATRINA did to our Sister City - NEW ORLEANS.
Both bastions of free thought , free spirits & excessive appetites. Au revoir Mon Amor de La Ville!

i'm afraid THAT San Francisco died in 1969. It is very nice to talk to you. The family structure for white America broke down here in the 70's . In Europe (i go every year) the family structure still seems intact , children are allowed to remain children . Corporate culture here is psychotic and objectifys everyone and turns them into commodities.
Anyway it was a completely gorgeous day today and i remain in Love with San Francisco and always meet great people and see new things.... Thank you!

Unless a person leaves this country and goes to another such as Norway, Morrocco, Singapore, Portugal, Iceland, Canada, etc. its hard to grasp how in decline the US is. Re entering the US from another country you see that we are an Empire in deep decline due to the breakdown of the family structure and the lack of financial support to the people due to lack of separation of corporation and state. It is appalling what we have allowed to happen here because we are too busy working or shopping. Now unless the people get it together for a general strike type revolution its too late and we will continue to fall into greater and greater decline. This is indeed now one of the most abundant cities with the most job growth, income per capita in the US and all it would take is one major Earthquake and SF is a pile of rocks.

White people think the TL (Tenderloin) is worst because it's the only shitty neighborhood they've actually had reason to spend any time in. It's dirty as hell, but not that dangerous. Granted, it's got the highest violent crime rate in the city and there's a few blocks that are a no-man's land, but for the most part, the criminal element of the TL pretty much keeps to itself. If you're not south of Eddy and looking for a fix, then you're fine. There's far scarier places in San Francisco. Most of the southern end of San Francisco is a danger zone. And the Mission, which, for the most part, is safe enough if you're minding your own business and on the precipice of gentrification, still has a ton of gang action going down and unlike the TL, they don't always keep it to themselves there. And, like DoctorH said, though not dangerous, the douche-bag filled Marina is a horrible, horrible neighborhood.

As artists ,filmakers & musicians we moved into neighborhoods like the Mission & Hayes Valley (which used to be REALLY dangerous in the 70's and 80's) but we moved there with LOVE & respect for the people - not fear and zenophobia. . We lived among the people and had to pass their particular rites of passage to be able to live there among them in peace. We were humble and respected our neighbors -THAT is the Spirit of San Francisco-city of St. Francis.
These arrogant East Coast/Midwest techie children act like Androids (or like the uptight racist straight people in the 70's who disowned their children , who had no creativity and absolutely NO style) .They look down (if they look at all) on anything around them as offending their sensibilities (not seeing how much their attitudes are offending local San Franciscans (except for the hideous unelected whore Mayor Lee.) It is a testament to the dignity of the neighborhood that the 22nd St. Gang and the Nortenos didn't start going "medieval " on their uptight clueless little asses 7 years ago when they started going south of Van Ness on 24th St. (but i guess maybe they were too busy having to find new housing in So. city & Oakland for all of their evicted families and helping their Abuletas move ...)

I don't mean to sound "bitter " or "preachy" . In reality im heartbroken because i've been having a love affair with San Francisco since I first came here in 1956 as a child when my mother told me we had to wear hats and gloves (because ladies always dressed in San Francisco.) I ran away from home to live here the minute and the day I turned 18 in 1966. This city has continued to fascinate me and mystify me for all these years until the 21st Century began to kick in. Now day by day , store by store, friend by friend forced out, as the collective magic and surrealist quality of everyday life here is evaporating into a bland charcoal grey linear moonscape of linear , boring , non-poetic styleless and uninteresting people obsessed (no that is too passionate a word) who are focused on iPhones, "disruption", code, "scalability", platforms,"monetizing", beer and pork.
They are not particularly nice or interesting, rarely smile at anyone not like themselves, rather arrogant who have driven the economy and global development to obscene heights so that those who created profound atmospheric worlds inside of stores & cafes, the collective consciousness of engagement, respect and acceptance that SF people had for one another. Because we had been through the riots in the Fillmore after the King assassination, the 150,000 teenage runaways descending on the russian neighborhood Haight,Ashbury all stoned daily on LSD, those 2 amazing years (1966,1967) of LOVE & PEACE WITHOUT ANY CAPITALISM in operation- a GIVING economy , a community economy, before the hard drugs came in. The loss of the Fillmore District and gentrification with the Geary thruway, Valencia St.the Lesbian haven in the 70's, the AIDS plague, The Castro and all the magic that was, the assassination of our Mayor Moscone & supervisor Milk , the Jim Jones debacle, the crack epidemic (when a woman tried to sell me her baby on 16th St. for a $20.00) the loss of Herb Caen-the town crier, the lost of our local ROCK and foundation- the daily SF Chronicle, all the wins of the world series, the super bowls, the 89" quake, the Dot-Com & the Dot-Bomb. We had been through alot together. But this is different . It feels like a city being dismantled from the ground up, many of us like myself in a silent daily heartbroken trauma as more of our friends get evicted (in their 60's) and the magical stores , cafes and bars forced to leave .
Change is inevitable of course . I feel extremely fortunate to have gotten to experience the only romantic place in the USA (besides New Orleans) that romantic freaks like myself could create ,breathe and be happy able to be ourselves.
At this rate In another year or two all that was left of that romance of this "painted lady", this little town named for St. Francis will have evaporated and be gone and those remaining will see that they killed what they kind of liked about it , it will be OVER and they will discover they do not have the Wisdom or the Heart or the creativity to create anything close to that kind of rich breathtaking magical atmosphere for themselves in this town. It was a collective dream,and rudely woken you feel it still so strongly but realize you can't remember it in the morning......because its gone.

@Brad: The attack on me took place at the corner of Larkin and Geary -the same place where another White Anglo was very badly injured by another Black thug (the attacker is up on Attempt to Murder charges).

In my case, other Blacks laughed and mocked me and called me White Motherfucker and Pussy Ass White Bitch for resisting the male Black who jumped me to steal my phone and money.

The neighbourhood I call home has had a horrible rep since at least the beginning of last century. The people who seem to defend it are sometimes the worst individuals one could not hope to ever meet: The Crips; The AZN Boyz gang; other Southeast Asian gangsters; Yemeni and other Arab gangsters; gay hustlers; violence-prone prostitutes; stolen prescription drugs dealers; Coke and/or Meth dealer; drunkards; scammers; stolen property merchants and other scumbags. You should hear what the Yemeni and Nepalese and Vietnamese and Chinese business people say about The Tenderloin. Are they wimps, too, Bradley?

Alright, you're entitled to have this opinion, but you're still wrong. Oh well, Brad, have it your way and keep on defying reality all you want.

As a now transplanted native of your age, I can only echo your sentiments. While we are talking about the changes in the city, I would also add the fact that SF is no longer a working port. I can remember when the Embarcadero was a gritty working port, before it was transformed into a Barcelona-like waterfront. It looks nice to the eye, but something was lost in the transformation. The techies and arrogant hipster a-hole pod people turn me off, but change is inevitable. In Hitchcock's masterpiece , VERTIGO, one of the characters talks about the changing SF, and how it isn't the city it once was. This was circa 1958. It's very comforting in a way to be an old fart, and be glad that we lived there when we were younger, and to have had a chance to enjoy everything that is now missing.