BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK

"Love in a Hard Place"

Just came across this feature in the NYTimes - it's sort of like their Modern Love column, only more upbeat for V-day:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/nyregion/14love.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1266163372-L+yRT6RPoYtFItU3KEjRRw


Also the love letters of Famous New Yorkers:

http://documents.nytimes.com/love-letters#p=4



Does it seem like it's harder to find love in NY than elsewhere? I'm tempted to think that it is - à la Sex and the City - but surely it's hard to find everywhere?

My friends and I were discussing how it's the norm - at least among young people - in the city to date a plethora of people at once; this seems somewhat counterproductive to me.
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
I completely agree Broadway BK. I'm even from Los Angeles and it seems like most (not all) of the men here have Peter Pan syndrome like I've never seen. Nobody has to grow up: it is perfectly acceptable to be 35 years old and have a roommate and no job here. That doesn't really fly anywhere else. And, it doesn't, exactly, create a conducive environment for deep rooted relating of any sort.
And, is it just me, or does it seem really tedious to date anyone who lives in another neighborhood? I live in Williamsburg and actually found myself groaning at the prospect of going out with someone who lived in Park Slope -- like it was kind of a deal breaker . ..
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
Yeah, I live in Bushwick and recently dated someone who lived in Lefferts Garden. It wasn't exactly a deal breaker - I drive - but relating is always much better when it's between two people in the same neighborhood.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
I'm seriously considering moving because I like someone in Boerum Hill. Maybe that's a good thing?
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
Although I've heard a lot of people say that it's especially difficult to meet some good in NY, for all of the reasons you both have mentioned, BroadwayBK and JenMac, I'm feeling especially optimistic lately and think that it has a lot to do with making a clear decision about what you want. The rest follows fairly quickly, I think.

The love letters were a really great read, by the way. Like I said, I've got a spring in my step lately.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
Aw, the softer side of Uraniumfish. I think if you like a guy in one neighborhood and it doesn't - but hopefully it will - work out, there will be more along the same lines in the same neighborhood. New Yorkers tend to live among their own, don't they? Not always, of course, but generally.

Most of my girl friends are in serious relationships with great guys, so I know it's not impossible. And maybe you're right, @Uraniumfish, a little positive thinking tends to get the ball rolling.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK those ten love stories from the NYT are adorable. I do agree that NYC is a tough city for singles most of my college friends who live here are all single and though they have great careers, they do seem to be a bit lonely . They constantly want to go out perhaps in the quest of 'the one' but often happen to run across guys in the city who are commitment phobes who are always on the look out for the next best thing. Btw BroadwayBK been meaning to tell you that OKCupid seems to be generating a real buzz it was in the NYT as well as CNN on the weekend.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/technology/internet/13cupid.html
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish what's a different neighborhood (Boerum Hill is lovely btw) when yours truly moved countries for love?:) go for it I say ... and as BroadwayBK says if it doesn't work maybe there's someone else in the same hood..
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@uptowngirl That's interesting that people think those ridiculous matching percentages on OkCupid mean much. I mean, OkCupid is something like the hipster of dating websites - many of the people on it are on the creative side, and I think that is why a lot of people join.

I also think that it is full of those Peter Pan types that JenMac mentioned, and those guys who are always looking for the next best thing - this site makes it easy for them.

That NYTimes article mentions an OkCupid blog posting which talks about how race effects how many messages you get, and this is it: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/

Here's a related article: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/white_guys_suck_other_insights_from_okcupid_study.php

I think the numbers on OkCupid aren't as reliable as the guys behind the site - math guys from Harvard - would like them to be, and the comments in the "White Guys Suck" article sort of go into that.

I've been toying with the idea of joining Eharmony for a while now....
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK what you mention about OKCupid seems to be true of all 'free' dating sites. In my experience when its free almost nobody is serious and are only looking for ways to 'hook up'. On a paid site people definitely seem more serious and into 'relating' rather than just hooking up.. again I am speaking from personal experience only so then E harmony maybe a good idea ..
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
The math geek in me found it fascinating to study those numbers, but in fact they don't shock me as much as they should. I'm not entirely excited by their conclusions though - white guys are jerks and black women are nice, how come that? - because there could be a lot of other reasons belying people's measurable behaviors.

@BroadwayBK A paid site could be a lot better. At least it indicates a level seriousness in looking for someone.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
I didn't find those results very shocking either, and I've never been incredibly partial to any particular ethnicity, personally.

Eharmony is crazy expensive! I found a coupon code for 20% off a six month membership, which is normally $179.70. It's $59.95 per month, $119.85 for three months, and $239.40 for a year.

With my luck I'll pay for a year and meet someone in a week, or pay for six months and never meet anyone!

The promo code, if anyone is interested, is from Online Dating Magazine: http://www.onlinedatingmagazine.com/onlinedatingpromotions/eharmonypromotions.html
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
In my opinion you shouldn't pay any amount of money to find someone you like. Would the people on those paid sites be any better just because they paid some money to be on there? I seriously doubt it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't mind talking to women in bars or at parties. Sure, the encounters can sometimes be not what you would hope, since there's no guarantee that a random woman picked out of a crowd is going to be interesting. But at least I can tell right away if I find her attractive enough to want to flirt longer.

Just thought I'd put a guy's perspective out there. I'm finding it really funny to read the womens' side of the equation here!
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
I think NYC is just so big and diverse, that you're likely to meet more people with whom you are incompatible. Not saying that's always the came, but if you grew up, say, in a smaller town with a specific cultural background, and you met someone with that same background (shared experience, childhood memories, etc), you'd automatically have a connection, whereas in NYC the infinite number of choices, along with lack of that shared cultural experience (I'm not necessarily talking race/class/etc, but rather culture as a whole), presents a new set of challenges - you can come to love someone completely different from yourself (as someone in a transnational relationship, it's hard!), but it isn't as automatically easy as marrying your high school sweetheart in a small town...
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist tend to agree with you NYC is just so vast and diverse and what you say about the same background making for common ground is definitely true. I believe my husband's woman friends in NYC gave him a lot of grief when they learned that he had decided to marry someone from the home country i.e. moi, Apparently they couldn't come to terms with the fact they he couldn't meet somebody in NYC itself and I don't think he ever divulged that he had made that decision because he wished to be with someone who had the same cultural and religious background as he did.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist @uptowngirl I guess this all goes back to the marriage-over-40 forum where we talked about how it's more difficult for a successful, intelligent woman to find her all-around match.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
I've actually had a profile on OkCupid once or twice - but nothing ever came of it. I actually ended up deleting my profile - twice - because I was spending too much time on it and procrastinating quite a bit! It's hard to tear yourself away, and it's a lot like shopping for boys online.

And I agree that it seems more difficult to find someone worthwhile and/or compatible in this city - nice guys are in short supply for some reason.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
When I lived abroad I had a lot more trouble finding someone with whom I might even entertain the idea of a relationship. And I think I was fairly social, had a lot of friends, went out, etc-- I wasn't exactly staying home every night. Still, when I moved back to New York, I was incredibly relieved to meet so many great men, and without trying too hard.

Goes to show you how different people's experiences can be. I know a few men in my social circle who are quietly wishing they could have a family, but feel jaded because the women they meet don't seem to be at all serious, in their experience!
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish That makes sense - a lot of women come to New York to pursue a career and put off having children.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
The way I see it, at least from my experience, there are a number of single men and women in this city. I have talked to a number of them and their wish was to just get rich quick and worry about marriage later. A few of them were in a relationship - boyfriend or girlfriend type - or they were just friends.

I think if you really want to find love you will. It is a mindset. If you focus on what you want, put plenty of emotion behind it, you'll get what you want.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
To what extent do you guys think the "Carrie Bradshaw" stereotype (single, upper-middle class thirtysomething looking for the One and failing) is an accurate depiction of NYC? I certainly hope it isn't - I found Sex and the City to be one of the most depressing shows I've ever seen.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist I think tons of women in NYC and even around the US and overseas identify or at least draw parallels with the foursome of SATC why just the other day I read an article that likened Martha Stewart to Carrie Bradshaw!
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/03/martha_stewart_1.html
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist Guess what ?? An Atlantic City Casino today launched SATC themed slot machines today.. the mind boggles at the appeal of the show and movie.
http://www.theborgata.com/Main.cfm?Category_1=10000&Category_2=10100&ReleaseID=7313AD66-F996-28DC-89714D85D352AA46
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
Wow, I really don't get the appeal of SATC. Lots of people look for "the One" and fail because they've got all kinds of strange expectations. I suspect some of these real-life single women kinds prefer to be alone, for all their carping. But would anyone actually say choosing to be alone is a valid lifestyle choice? Wouldn't we tend to assume there's something wrong with the person?
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish: My girlfriend knows a number of women, who are in their upper '40s, '50s, and even lower '60s, who have never married and where happy. So I think the stereotype of you have to get married is hogwash. If you prefer to be single, stay single. If you rather get married, then settle down.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
It depends on what you mean by "alone," @uraniumfish. I imagine people who want to completely isolate themselves from all relationships might have some psychological problems. But people who aren't married, but have a healthy set of friends, relatives, neighbors, and even perhaps romantic interests might well be happy with their lifestyle choices. I'm a loner by inclination, but wouldn't want to be wholly alone.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist and uraniumfish, a few months ago a girlfriend of mine asked me point blank why I hadn't had children as yet ? She then went onto ask then wasn't marriage based on the need to procreate otherwise why get married at all?. The person who asked this was not a rural, backward thinking woman but a NYC dweller who is bright and sassy who works for a leading social networking company in Chelsea. I was gobsmacked to say the least don't issues like love , companionship and the desire to be a part of a couple even enter the equation?
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
ajadedidealist: sadly, I feel like there are a lot more of the Carrie Bradshaws than we'd like to admit. This city seems to breed this feeling of the next best thing. And, women here tend to be a bit tougher and more success driven which I think scares people.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@JenMac and many successful NY women have rather unrealistic expectations. Not every guy can look like Brad Pitt and also be emotionally and financially stable. Somethings gotta give especially if you are in your 40's or thereabouts.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Uptowngirl: The problem with many of the women in NY is exactly what you said: unrealistic expectations. They expect exactly what they want. Nothing less. They believe that since they live in the so-called "Greatest City in the World," they deserve nothing but the best. That is why I said NYC is nothing much than pure hype to draw tourist here.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
Well...not to say that unrealistic expectations are a good thing - it's always good to be tuned into reality. But why settle for less than what you want? I mean obviously you can't expect anyone to be perfect, but why would you give up what you want for someone you don't want? How could that possibly make anyone happy?
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@NeverSleeps: True. You want to be happy. But at the same time, you don't want to be fanatical about it either.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
"They believe that since they live in the so-called "Greatest City in the World," they deserve nothing but the best. " Word, @hhusted. But that's not a healthy way to approach it - relationships are based on compromise, not always having The Best.
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
Yes, but if you've been dating for a while, it seems you just get kinda tired of the crap so you are very quick to pull the trigger. Being that this is kind of a peter pan city, there's a lot of crap. That probably doesn't help in the whole not settling situation.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@JenMac I completely agree; the longer I found myself in the dating game, the less likely I was to deal with anything I found intolerable, whereas when I was somewhat younger I would have put up with much more from boys.

@everyone I don't think women in this city are fanatical about finding men. And I don't have many friends who fit the Carrie Bradshaw profile, either, so I'm not sure how common such women are. I don't think you can fit the various women in this city into a neat little box of "she who wants only the best" or "she who stops at nothing to get exactly what she wants" or "she who wants to be alone forever." I think people are far more complicated in the reasons they make their life decisions.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
It seems - at least, in those articles I posted at the start of this thread - that women are actually settling for less more and more these days, and in New York City at that.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
Oh, sorry: meant the articles that we talked about here: http://www.streetadvisor.com/new_york/forums/according-to-a-study-nonmarried-women-at-40-will-never-marry#reply

Ah! I'm getting these threads all confused!
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
And, on the subject of putting up with less the more you date, I'm beginning to relate. More than anything, I'm just TIRED of guys acting like jerks. It's exhausting, and I - overwhelmingly - don't want anything to do with it.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK Believe me we've all felt like that at one time or another. I am sure there is someone great out there for you somewhere. He only has to show up quickly...:):) My mum who is a great believer in Hindu philosophy used to always tell me this when I was single and going through my own 'men' traumas.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
So, over the weekend, I was approached not once but twice by young men as I was walking around in the city, minding my own business. They wanted to talk to me, we had a little friendly banter, and then I politely said thank you for the attention but I'm attached. And they then politely went on their way. Does this happen to other women? I don't think I was looking especially fabulous, and I was certainly not looking for attention of any kind. Are the streets of NY the new meat market? Is this just spring having an effect on everybody?

And no, I'm not bragging. This doesn't exactly happen to me all the time.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish I think its Spring madness at least in my case. I never usually get catcalls in NYC and this week I got two from totally random guys. Like you I dont think I was especially well dressed or anything as I was going to browse the thrift stores. I certainly thought it was bizarre..as I hurried away, bit embarrassed.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@NeverSleeps I dont know about women being fanatical about finding a man but I have single girl friends in NYC who are successful and everything but now want very much to be a part of a couple. They often badger me to hook them up with great guys. I would If I knew any. One of these girls recently met a guy, who is kind, thoughtful, well to do and well accomplished ...but .. as we know there is always a big BUT he is not''it'..i.e. sexy so now he is going to be dumped as the person continues her quest for 'the One'. That's what I mean by unrealistic expectations. Sometimes attraction grows its not always that you have instant incredible chemistry with a guy at least that has been my experience.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@ajdadedidealist very well said.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Everybody: With spring having finding come upon us, people are reacting to it. People are getting out and feeling sexual, if that is a good way to say it. Or maybe that is too strong a word. Maybe people are feeling antsy. My girlfriend noticed how people are paying more attention to her than before.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish Ah...so things are working out nicely with that boy then? Maybe I'll have to get down to that bar/meeting spot previously mentioned.

And I think that uptowngirl is right about spring fever being in the air. I feel like my power to attract men has heightened with the warmer weather.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
@Everybody: The weather is going to deaden your life to a point for a few days, as old man winter gives us one last shot. But after this run, hopefully we won't see winter again until the end of this year.
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