JenMac
JenMac

Why does Williamsburg seem to be the only neighborhood that isn't cheaper

I live in Willy -- and, don't get me wrong, I love my neighborhood. But, it is seriously the only neighborhood that has not a rent decrease over the last year. Most of my friends in the city are now paying the same rent as me and they're apartments are only slightly smaller. And, some of my neighbors have actually moved into the city because they found a better deal. What gives? I'm not buying the whole trust fund hipster theory because there aren't too many of those down by the Graham stop . .. nor are there any high rise developments back that far. Yet, the rent has sustained. Thoughts? Ideas?
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
So, having looked high and low in the month of January, I cna only offer this: whenever the price was ridiculously high for what was on offer, it ususally had to do with the landlord not quite catching on to the current economic reality. I kept thinking, "Yeah, maybe you could have rented this out two years ago at this price, but not any more." Still, some people seemed adamant, and weren't going to think of negotiating on the price.

Which I attribute to lack of ability to face reality. More than once I walked away laughing. Perhaps Willy people have a higher imaginative ability, and therefore a corresponding inability to deal with reality? Just a thought.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish you're so right that the same logic I seem to apply to the landlords in the city who allow store fronts to sit empty for weeks /months rather than renting out the property at lower rents which are more in tune with current market conditions.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
Yeah, seems silly to me too. But I think the minute they lower rents, they'll have a harder time raising them back up in the future, so it's all a hope game for now. I think I've said before that I don't see a miraculous uptick in the market in the next few months, and therefore agree with you, uptowngirl, that the most realistic thing to do is lower rents a little and fill those stores.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
It is better to get some money than none at all. If the owners play it right, they can lower their rents, fill all vacancies, and later when the economy picks up, they can raise their rents accordingly.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
I live in Bushwick and I haven't seen any rent decreases in the past year - if anything people seem to be asking for more money, and I agree with the above statements that this is because landlords and lease holders are completely delusional. I know someone who has lived in this neighborhood for ten years and he is trying to charge $850 - more than half the rent - for one bedroom in his three bedroom apt. My roommate, as we all know, is a bit of a profiteer of sorts as well, and I didn't think he could get someone to move into the third room for $800 (um, hello, we live right next to the elevated J train near both a Conway and a VIM!!), but it turns out he had his pick of takers. They both seem to think that these are reasonable prices for the area, when if fact...they aren't.

And Bushwick studios aren't much better - though there are some in the neighborhood of $900, I've seen some for much more than that that actually are feet away from the el train. Who would pay more to listen to that all night?

I'm tempted to say that prices aren't going down because of delusional/greedy landlords, but I also know from experience that people will often pay these crazy rates. Sometimes people don't have the time they'd like to look for a place and just settle for one that is available to them - and for some people it isn't easy to find a place to live, as there is a lot of competition if you don't have good credit or you are just looking to live with strangers on Craig's list who can understandably be very selective.
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK I recently rented a place for exactly the reason you said: I needed to move quickly, I had a lot to do, and I didn't have a lot of time to look carefully for the perfect apartment. I just took a place really fast and it is definitely only a place to get me through the next few months, and nothing more. When things settle down and I have time to look for an apartment I want to have for the long term, then you bet that I'll be very very picky. In this market, I can afford to be very very picky. What I'm saying is: maybe your greedy landlord got lucky for now, and will be lucky for some months more. But if the market continues to go downhill - or even if it stays at exactly this level for some more months - many apartment seekers will feel they can afford to be picky, and landlords will have to lower their standards accordingly.

My current landlord is extremely uptight about doing credit checks and proper paper work (he's very young and very nervous). And yet, he was so anxious to rent the place I took, that he pretty much waived the credit check and took my deposit as a good enough guarantee that I'm credit worthy. I think this is because he had trouble finding a tenant and I showed up at the last minute. Even if prices don't go down immediately, some of the standards for screening tenants might become a lot more realxed, as landlords notice that it's getting harder to get tenants to stay.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
Ugh, how terrifying, @Broadwaybk! I'm glad I'm not in search of NYC housing right now. The situation sounds dreadful, and people are really just out to make a buck - with a mass domino effect that's making the quality of life worse for everyone. Greed is not good, people!
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@uraniumfish I was discussing the issue about landlords with a group of girlfriends yesterday and they seemed to think that the landlords are perhaps entitled to some abatement or some tax relief if they show a 'loss' in the form of a vacant property. We were just speculating but maybe hhusted knows more since he has worked in the business?
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
It would be interesting to know how far an abatement would go, if that's an option for landlords. Because it wold probably have a time limit, after which you can't write it off any more.
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
A lot of rental listings I see in Williamsburg are for work spaces and studio spaces. I wonder how that could be a factor in how the residential units are priced?
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
No idea, @Dblack. But perhaps its indicative of the artists' cache that's make Wburg such a popular and expensive destination in the first place.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
Rental prices are more or less dictated by a few factors:

1) What the market can bear;
2) What the landlord can get away with;
3) And how the apartment is registered.

Every apartment building owner has to register his building with the city zoning office and the records department. This is standard practice. Now, what happens is if the owner is slick and decides to list a studio as a one bedroom, he can get more money for that reason. How can he do this? If the studio apartment has a beam of some type going across the ceiling, the owner can state the apartment was split in some way, proving the apartment had a living room and bedroom. As such, it can be listed as a one bedroom. And guess what folks, he gets away with it, because the zoning office, as well as city records, are too busy to go check the property out for themselves.

As for abatement, landlords really don't want to go that route if they can help it. One reason is because when they start lowering rents, tenants are going to expect consistency. This means the landlord will find it tough to raise the rent when the economy picks up. He would have to argue his case and sometimes landlords don't have the time to deal with going to court over such a case. So what they do instead is find a tenant, who is willing to go with the current rate. He knows full well there will be someone who will be willing to pay what he wants. So he is willing to wait it out for a while to see if he gets any bites.

He will only lower the rent if it is a worst case scenario, like no one has rented any apartments for three months or longer, and his mortgage is behind a couple of months.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@hhusted seems like the landlords in NYC currently ( at least commercial landlords ) have a lot of holding power since they allow their properties to remain vacant for what seems like ages.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
Anyone else see these guys last summer? http://gawker.com/5315688/the-heroin+addicted-hobo-invasion-of-williamsburg-has-begun

Guess those resident-less developments aren't so empty after all.
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK I enjoyed the tone of that article very much. Love the comments too, like the first one: "I'm glad we accept the $150/day figure, because hobos asking for meth money are very reliable sources."
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@BroadwayBk I met an obnoxious finance type at a party recently who was boasting about the recent purchase of his 'incredible' Willyburg penthouse. I am sorely tempted to email the link to him.. on the other hand have been meaning to ask but didnt think it was appropriate. but here goes anyway... how do panhandlers manage to get on the subway? do they buy a card for $2.25 and ride the service all day transferring underground all the time as they hope to make more than their initial outlay or do they just jump the turnstiles at an unmanned station? I have often wondered about this...
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
I often see homeless people picking Metrocards up from the ground and swiping them. And there are certain stations where you can just jump the turnstile when there is no attendant around - I've witnessed this from time to time as well, especially at my local J train stop.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
*** I meant I always see homeless people picking up cards and swiping them to see if they have anything left on them; never actually witnessed the success of this technique.

@DBlack haha, yeah that article stayed in my head since I read it last summer - and those kids in the picture were part of a gaggle of hipster vagrants who were always on Bedford, harassing passers-by and loudly demanding change.
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
@uptowngirl I've seen a lot of people slip under or over the turnstiles without paying. You'd be surprised. You have to have a good technique, blend in with the crowd, and wait for those couple of seconds when the attendant is looking away.

Now, if you're a heroin hobo, though, you might have a little trouble with your hand-eye coordination. Then you have to just walk yourself across the Willy Bridge, I guess.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@DBlack If you're a heroin hobo, why would you ever want to leave your sweet squatting habitat? I'm sure there are plenty of supplies to be had in Williamsburg as well.

I've seen tons of people jumping the turnstiles in the subway - and not just homeless people. Maybe MTA should hike up the fines for those who get caught rather than trying to charge the rest of us outrageous prices for a train ride.
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
@DBlack and NeverSleeps I've mostly seen kids do it, much more rarely adults. When kids do it, I feel fairly tolerant of their hoodlum ways, though I'd be much more disapproving of adults who try to get away with it.
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NeverSleeps
NeverSleeps 2yrs+
@Uraniumfish I've seen kids do it, but also adults. Have to admit sometimes I am tempted.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
It would seem to me that a transit cop would be at the stations to watch such things. But this city is so disorganized that anything is possible. In fact, I have seen so many situations where this city lost chances to make money but blew it. Any they are crying they are nearly broke. I can see why.

Maybe homeless people jumping the turnstiles is not much of a problem. I don't know. But I do agree those panhandlers must do things illegally at times, or at least it appears that way by the way they dress. On the other hand, you can't judge a book by its cover.
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ajadedidealist
ajadedidealist 2yrs+
Wow, I'm sheltered. I've never seen anybody jump a turnstile, nor have I ever done it myself.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@ajadedidealist nor have I for that matter...
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Uraniumfish
Uraniumfish 2yrs+
I have to say, the people I've seen jumping were pretty slick about it, and it would have been easy to miss.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
There is often no attendant in the booth at the Flushing JZ stop, and when that happens just about no one pays to ride the train.

I see a lot of people jumping the turnstile in Union Square as well, security or no, as those who are really good at it aren't often noticed in the crowds.
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uptowngirl
uptowngirl 2yrs+
@BroadwayBK In Union Sqaure really?? I frequent that station and have never really noticed anyone jumping the turnstiles..maybe I haven't been paying attention or am always lugging TJ's stuff to look around. I don't even like to use the gate which is meant for disabled passengers and mums with strollers.It makes such a racket so I push my bags through the turnstiles and then swipe.. When TJs opens on W 72nd Street later this year it will make my life much easier.
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
I've never seen anyone jumping the turnstiles at my Willy stop -- but, I've seen plenty of people who look exactly like the homeless people in the article. In fact, those are exactly the kind of people that have sex in the bathrooms at Union Pool all the time. Chicks go crazy for the homeless pervert thing in these parts. I guess when the guy has 150 bucks in his pocket and a super suite abandoned condo to take the girl to . . .how could he not be popular?
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DBlack
DBlack 2yrs+
So that's why the're not that many great women to date? They're all going for the Willy heroin hobos? Why didn't anyone tell me this sooner. I too could have turned heroin hobo in Willy. Now if I try it, I'll just look like an unshaved poser. Do women also go for unshaved heroin hobo Willy posers? Gotta know, quick.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@uptowngirl Yeah, Union Square is full of slick young kids who don't feel the need to pay, or maybe just didn't get their allowance that week. The people I've seen jump the turnstiles at that stop are truly talented.

@JenMac Ugh, I know exactly what you are talking about. Union Pool is the place to be for hipster heroin addict perverts.... I try to go there as little as humanly possible.
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BroadwayBK
BroadwayBK 2yrs+
@DBlack I doubt that it's the "great" women who are going for the heroin hobos - more like the confused/young ones. There is no short supply of confused young women in Williamsbush.
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hhusted
hhusted 2yrs+
I agree with others. I never saw anyone jump the turnstiles. Maybe it happens only at certain stations?
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JenMac
JenMac 2yrs+
Dblack: They totally go for heroin hobo posers. There are only like 10 -20 actual heroin hobos in Willy. All of the rest of the neighborhood is poser after poser -- and, they pull mad chicks. You're in!
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